Rogue Awareness

The board of the Oregon Whitewater Association recently met and the board has agreed to take the following position to help alleviate the crowded camping on the Rogue River:

As the Board of Directors, we recognize there are vast and different opinions on this issue and have decided to keep the official club stance as broad as possible in an effort to advocate for all boaters.

• Increase the confirmation time for winning lottery applications from 10 days to 30 days. With all of the commitments most of us have during the busy summer season, ten days is simply not enough time to put together a large group. Between scheduling time off work, juggling other commitments and finding multiple day childcare (if you need to), most of us have our summers planned out more than 10 days ahead of us at a time. A 30 day notice seems a little more reasonable for planning purposes.
• Define the large group size that is able to reserve campsites as 10 people. If we as private boaters are going to be able to participate in this campsite reservation system, and the defining rule as to whether you can reserve a campsite or not is group size, then the definition of a large group should be something that is reasonable attainable by most boaters. We feel a group size of ten people is large enough that a large campsite is necessary while at the same time most people can round up ten people to take a river trip given enough notice.
• Place signs at each campsite marking the river mile and the recommended group size. Signing the campsites helps in a number of ways: it lets people know the marked location is in fact a campsite, it lets people know where exactly they are at on the river, and it would let people know the recommended group size so small groups can leave the campsites for large groups. Also, if there is to be a reservation system then at a minimum the sites that can be reserved need to be signed to let everyone know the site has a possibility of being reserved.

Not much has happened on the campsite congestions problem. A couple outfitters have made proposals to the BLM and haven’t heard anything back. I’ve also heard that several recreational boaters have sent proposals to the BLM to do nothing. It seems like not much will get done before the 2009 rafting season.

It seems that the best thing we can do is increase communication between all parties that float the Rogue. River In order to do this, I’d be happy to come speak any recreational boating group about:

• What commercial companies can do to improve
• Why we need to send rabbit boats and how we can reduce the need for them
• Answer any questions from an outfitter’s perspective

From a meeting I’d be happy to send any feedback with the other commercial outfitters and guides. Please email me or simply add a comment to this blog and give us your input.

Thanks,

Zachary Collier
ECHO River Trips
(541) 386-2271
zach@echotrips.com

There has been quite a bit of talk about the outhouses. When we met with the BLM last month, we asked them if it would be possible to add more outhouses (idea suggested by NWRA members) and they said that would not be possible. They did say that some of the outhouses will actually be permanently closing because they are nearly full and there are no more places to dig holes.

• The outhouses at Lower Horseshoe and Tyee will likely close in the 2009 season
• The outhouses at Doe and Missouri Bar will likely close in the 2010 season

The outhouse at Missouri Bar will be the most missed. The BLM put sensors in the door mats and recorded that the Missouri bar outhouse was used an average of 56 times per day in the summer months.

In a comment on the last post, Mike Babcock raises some issues about the scat machine not being open year-round. I’m not sure why they close it in the winter but my guess is to avoid vandalism. His comments reminded me of some interesting statistics about the Scat machine.

• The Forest Service collected $486 from the Scat Machine in 2008
• It costs $1 to use the Scat Machine (so it was used 486 times)
• There were 1201 private trips in 2008
• There were 483 commercial trips in 2008
• That’s a total of 1684 trips!

So at least 1684 “groovers” went down the Rogue last year and only 486 were cleaned in the Scat Machine. It’s pretty obvious that we (both commercial and private) are dependent on the outhouses. Maybe the loss of 4 “key” outhouses will force more people to use their groovers.

I’ve heard that part of the problem is that many private boaters don’t want to buy expensive “groovers” like the Jon-ny Partner (about $500). Maybe a simple solution to getting small groups to camp at adequately sized camps is for the BLM to rent them. Any thoughts?

Everyone seems to be thinking about different ideas right now and a hybrid of Option A and Option B seems to be gaining steam. This would require a certain number of people to be in certain camps to claim them. The camps would be labeled with a marker denoting the name of the camp and the group size.

I’m sure we’ll have more discussion after the various private boating groups meet and talk about the various ideas. In the meantime, I thought I’d post this video.

watch?v=xeoF4-27y3E

I read this idea on a Yahoo discussion board posted by a private boater today and thought I’d add it for discussion.

“I’d like to see a system that assigns a minimum group size to the medium and larger camps with a requirement that there must be at least the minimum number of people at the camp in order to claim it. This would make sending a rabbit boat useless and would stop the small groups from claiming large camps (for example I heard a story about a small, 1 or 2 boat, party grabbing Battle Bar). There could be a time set, say 4PM for example, where anyone still on the river could grab any camp.”

Any thoughts?

It seems that the debate comes down to what private users on the Rogue River want. I believe that there are many private users that want a reservation system. This comes from discussions I’ve had with private boaters at meetings and on the River. Not exactly scientific. I also hear the opposite.

I would like to come up with a fair way to poll Rogue River private boaters about:

- If they think they think there is a problem
- What they think the solution is
- And, if they would support a reservation system

The hard part will be conducting the survey fairly. Any thoughts about how to conduct a survey and what the questions should be?

Larry from the Riverhawks commented on our proposed ideas. He asked some questions about the options presented in a previous post regarding campsite congestion solutions. Here are some answers.

Which campsites are designated as “large”?

Our original proposal designated 12 camps of the 28 large camps: Lower Whisky Creek, Doe Creek, Tyee, Lower Wildcat, Horseshoe Bend, Battle Bar, Upper Missouri, Mule Creek East (Rogue River Ranch), Lower Half Moon Bar, Brushy Bar, Lower Solitude, and Middle Tacoma.

We spoke with boating groups and they expressed concerns that they would never be able to camp at these sites again, so our newest thinking is that the large camps designated would alternate each year.                

What happens if a smaller group camps in a campsite designated as “large”?  

If the camp is a “reserved” camp, then they would need to share it. Most groups would prefer not to share camps and would avoid “reserved” camps.

How big does a group have to be to qualify as “large”?

This is a great question. We picked 15, but are open other numbers.

Are medium groups always forbidden to use certain campsites?

Nope. The “reservable” large camps would make up less than half of the total large camps and they would alternate each year. Our idea for a large campsite reservation system would only apply in the highly congested period between June 15th and August 31st. It’s very easy to camp at your favorite campsite other times of the year when the Rogue is not as croweded.

If you did a Rogue trip today (November 16th), you’d have sunny skies, 60 degree weather, and the ability to camp anywhere you wanted. You’d also see waterfalls most people don’t, even more wildlife, and have fewer encounters with tamed bears.

What happens on the times when there are lots of small and medium groups but only a few large groups?

During the busy months of June 15th to August 31st, there are always at least 12 large groups on the water at any one time. We realize this plan could cause problems in the spring and fall months because some camps could go unused during that time, so it would not be implemented.

What happens if two groups want the same campsite for the same night?  

If it is “reservable,” the BLM would need to come up with a plan for settling ties. They flip a coin on the Middle Fork and that works very well. It’s a tradition for outfitters on the Middle Fork to always concede the coin toss to private boaters.

What happens if one group totally disregards the plan?  

It is very hard for the BLM to enforce rules on the Rogue River. There should be a common respect between boaters to follow the rules and work together. If a group did disregard the plan, then they’ll need to share that camp.

What happens if another group is camped in the site that you have reserved?

They will need to share. Large groups simply won’t be able to find another campsite downriver so there is not other option.

If someone is camped in the site you had reserved, could you camp in any other site, even if it was reserved by someone else?

Absolutely not. Unless there was a safety concern that forced a group to use a different camp and in that case, they would need to share. But that’s the case now. You MUST camp in a site that is reserved.

The Middle Fork of the Salmon has full campsite reservation system (every camp) and this isn’t a problem there.

If not, what do you do then? 

Campsites are so scarce in the busy summer months, so large groups would want their “reserved” camps. It would not be okay to reserve a camp and not use it. Again, this is tough to enforce by the BLM, but a common courtesy between boaters.

If a campsite reservation plan is implemented, would “rabbit boating” be prohibited?  

No. It would be very difficult for the BLM to enforce a prohibition on “rabbit boating.” This plan would simply eliminate the need for it.

Who would enforce this prohibition?  

The BLM, but as I said above, it would be very hard for them to actually enforce any ban.

How would “rabbit boating” be defined?

It is very tough to define it. I would define it as sending boats ahead to hold a camp. The current system basically forces large groups into this practice. If a portion of the camps were reservable, then large groups wouldn’t need to send boats ahead to reserve camps.

A large campsite reservation system is just one idea for helping with the camping congestion problem on the lower Rogue River. Our common goal is to come up with a plan that will help eliminate the need to send “rabbit boats” down the Rogue.

The purpose of this site is to post information important to the Rogue River. We’ve been working on solving the campsite congestion problem and have received way too many people to be to be updated by email to effectively manage. This is a tool to help with that.

You can put your email in the box to the right and received updates to this blog by email. Your email will not be used for any other use. Other options are to visit this site on a regular basis or subscribe to the RSS Feed.

PROPOSAL FOR REDUCING CAMPSITE CONFLICTS AND ELIMINATING THE NEED FOR RABBIT BOATING ON THE WILD SECTION OF THE ROGUE RIVER

PROBLEM – Large float groups on the Rogue River have a limited number of appropriately sized sites where they can camp. These sites are often occupied by smaller groups which results in campsite uncertainty, campsite competition and user conflicts. The practice of sending a raft ahead to secure a campsite (rabbit boating) has become a necessary practice for large groups in order for them to be more certain of getting an appropriately sized site. This practice creates unwelcome divisiveness on the river and decreases the sense of solitude that is important for all Rogue floaters.

GOAL – Eliminate the need for rabbit boating by providing large groups a higher level of certainty that they will have an appropriately sized camp.

We propose adopting one or more of the following four possible solutions, each with its own level of complexity and effectiveness.

OPTION A: Physically identify each of the major campsites with a sign that gives the name, river mileage and designated group size for the camp.

This proposal would aid river users by letting them know where they are on the river and, in conjunction with an up-to-date campsite list, would help them locate and use an appropriately sized camp. It would eliminate confusion about campsite identity and capacity. This proposal might not significantly reduce the need for rabbit boating because it would not restrict small groups from occupying large sites (it would just make it more obvious that a small group was using an inappropriately sized camp) nor would it eliminate competition between large groups.

This proposal requires the BLM and Forest Service to inventory campsites, create and place signs, (wooden posts, vertical strip signs or small plaques), create and add campsite language to permits and to educate permit holders about using appropriately sized campsites.

OPTION B: Designate certain sites for use by large groups only.

This proposal would designate certain, specific campsites for use by large groups only. It would reduce campsite competition because instead of competing with EVERY OTHER GROUP for large campsites, large groups would only be competing with other large groups. Large groups would be able to communicate and coordinate campsite use with other large groups on the river, which would result in slightly more campsite certainty and would reduce the need to send a raft ahead to secure a camp. Uncertainty would still exist due to layovers and mistakes. The number and selection could be adjusted annually to match demand and to avoid any sense of exclusivity.

This proposal requires the BLM to add a clearly worded stipulation sheet to the face of each permit, to educate groups when they pick up their permit at Rand, to post signs similar to the bear education or fire restriction notices in Rand, at the portal kiosks and at the large camps and to have river rangers educate and enforce the policy during patrols.           

OPTION C: Create a voluntary campsite reservation option for large groups and large sites.

This proposal would consist of a campsite sign up sheet at Rand on which large groups could sign up for specific large camps when obtaining their permit. It would effectively eliminate the need for rabbit boating by giving large groups a very high degree of campsite certainty. Uncertainty would still exist due to mistakes; however implementing a portion of Option A (identifying and signing the large sites only) would effectively eliminate all uncertainty. Approximately 10 of the 51 already inventoried sites (20%) would need to be designated as “large group only” sites. The number and selection could be adjusted annually to match demand and to avoid any sense of exclusivity. The minimum group size needed in order to qualify as a large group could also be adjusted to ensure efficient use of the large sites.

This proposal requires the BLM to maintain a simple, one-page campsite sign-up sheet at Rand, to add a clearly worded stipulation sheet to the face of each permit, to educate groups when they pick up their permit at Rand, to post signs similar to the bear education or fire restriction notices in Rand, at the portal kiosks and at the large camps and to have river rangers educate and enforce the policy during patrols. It could also be supplemented with a sign at each of the large sites.

OPTION D: Create a voluntary campsite reservation option for both large and small groups and both large and small sites.This proposal would effectively eliminate the need for rabbit boating by giving large groups a very high degree of campsite certainty while also providing the same degree of certainty to small groups who choose to know in advance where they are going to be camping. Uncertainty would still exist due to mistakes; however implementing a portion of Option A (identifying and signing sites) would effectively eliminate all uncertainty. Approximately 10 of the 51 already inventoried sites (20%) would need to be designated as reservable large group sites; anywhere from 8 to 12 of the 51 already inventoried sites (15 to 20%) would need to be designated as reservable small group sites. The number and selection could be adjusted annually to match demand and to avoid any sense of exclusivity.

This proposal requires the BLM to maintain a more complex campsite sign-up sheet at Rand, to add a clearly worded stipulation sheet to the face of each permit, to educate groups when they pick up their permit at Rand, to post signs similar to the bear education or fire restriction notices in Rand, at the portal kiosks and at the large camps and to have river rangers educate and enforce the policy during patrols. It could also be supplemented with a sign at each of the reservable sites.

These proposals come from river outfitters. We’ve met with the Oregon Whitewater Association and the NWRA Board and have taken their thoughts into consideration when coming up with these proposals.