I said, “Seriously, what do you think is different from the way things have been for thirty years?”

You said, “On that note, are you suggesting that usage hasn’t increased on the Rogue in the past thirty years? I most certainly can prove that to be entirely false based simply on the limited information that the BLM provides at the annual usage meetings.”

In my post above I was asking a question. It was not an assertion, it was a question. Your assertion was a response to my question, and you offered to prove your assertion. Your assertion came first, so maybe the burden of proof is on you.

at any rate, i’ll see if i can find my copies of the user data and will post once i can find it. at worst, i’m sure i can email blm and they’ll send me the ppt slide with the (basic) info.

doesn’t matter what USED to be… the current system is the current system. using crazy old-school stats based on an entirely different permit system is entirely pointless as the CURRENT system is the one we have to work within.

There were some differences in the annual totals for years that the BLM changed the dates of the permit season. The permit season used to start on June first, so it missed the memorial day launches. And the season used to end right after labor day, so it missed most of the steelhead season as well. The usage for the summer months has been pretty constant if you only look at July and August. If you have figures that dispute this please post them.

If you don’t think there’s a problem, that is entirely fair. Many others disagree. Explain your reasoning and evidence so that the issue can be clarified, debated, and resolved. Who knows… you might actually be right!

On that note, are you suggesting that usage hasn’t increased on the Rogue in the past thirty years? I most certainly can prove that to be entirely false based simply on the limited information that the BLM provides at the annual usage meetings. If more detailed information exists – I’m sure the fact that usage (demand) has outpaced the resource in question would become glaringly clear.

Zach – try to get buy-in from the BLM to send out a survey to, at the very least, those folks who attend the annual users meeting. Create said survey in partnership with the BLM, the FS, a couple private boaters, and a couple commercial outfitters. Said development and application would certainly be appropriate and acceptable in terms of creating some framework around the problem (if one indeed exists) as well as any possible solutions.

As I said before, while I’m in favor of a reservation system – one that is voluntary in nature will surely only cause more harm than good. The last thing you need is fighting on the river because someone who wants to abide by a voluntary system comes upon “their reserved” space to find it occupied by someone who doesn’t give two hoots about the voluntary system. Without buy in and enforcement on the part of the BLM or FS, a reservation system is dead in the water.

As for working for a solution, I’m not sure I agree that there is problem. The use on the rogue has been nearly identical for most of the last thirty years. The number of campsites has only changed slightly as floods rearranged the sand from year to year. Reserved campsites have been debated and rejected many times in the last thirty years. So, what has changed? Seriously, what do you think is different from the way things have been for thirty years?

I am simply trying to prevent a few commercial interests from disturbing what has been a delicate balance between private and commercial boaters.

No edit function on the blog comments eh? hehehe.

While I agree an online survey is easily manipulated, if there was buy-in on the part of the BLM to assist in these efforts, a very reasonable survey could be mailed to known river users in order to gather information. Said survey, worded properly so as to not lead responses, would most certainly shed some light on the issue and help guide further discussion and plan-development.

The idea here is to work towards a solution… not just complain about what other people say or think.

Your survey proposal was not very well thought out. I was trying to save you from putting a lot of work into a worthless survey. If you prefer, I will wait until your survey is complete to examine it. Have at it.

Is it true for me to assume that you oppose any efforts we make?

A proper survey costs a lot of money. A bad survey is worse than no survey at all. You might be able to use a bad survey to affirm whatever it is that you want to believe, but you won’t learn anything from a bad survey.