I’m a little confused about what you mean by “voluntary.” Are you okay if a subset of the sites are reservable? And that it’s mandatory to have a reservation for those sites?

One of the ideas is a system where some of the camps are reservable and it’s mandatory to have a reservation for those camps. Would you support that kinds of a system.

Another idea is to have some of the campsites marked with names and group sizes and that a minimum number of people need to be at that camp to claim it. Would you support a system like that?

Are you a commercial guide or outfitter?

I know we’d all like to think the best of people, but I really don’t think that’s the case. Any sort of voluntary system is simply going to exacerbate the problem because now, instead of everyone knowing that all sites are up for grabs in a boat-camping freefrall, you’ll have certain groups “expecting” certain camps making them that much more pissed when they don’t get them.

I know I’m repeating myself, but I’ll say it again: an enforceable reservation system that the BLM and/or Forest service buys into and operates is the best say to go here.

If they have arrived at a camp they shouldn’t have to lounge around and wait for other groups to explain that it is their camp.

Knowing how big a group is and how many boats they have would be a key in determining whether or not they are “all there” or not. I believe that information is on the permits we all carry down the river. Ff it came down to it you could look at someone’s permit and see that, yes, all 6 boats are here, so your entire group must be here as well.

I think I understand Kerry’s plan, so let me take a stab at this.

The real problem is that small groupss (usually 5 or less) take a large camps (designed for 15 – 30). There are plenty of camps for everyone, but not when small groups take these camps. In many cases they take these camps simply because they have an outhouse.

Interesting fact: More than half of all private groups (not users) are 5 people or less.

Kerry’s idea would require a minimum number of people to stand in a camp for it to be reserved. Large groups could speedboat, but could be displaced by another large group that shows up. This would eliminate the usefulness of speedboating.

His plan would also keep the 5 person groups out of the large camps. Again, you’d need a minimum number of people in certain camps and 5 wouldn’t be enough.

The upside of Kerry’s plan is that it’s a simple way to eliminate the need to speedboat and it is a more effective use of camps.

How’d I do Kerry?

if the site isn’t actually reserved… group A with 12 people (or whatever the number would be) and group B with 12 people could quite easily get into a battle for sites… with both sending rabbits.

sure, this eliminates SOME issues with small groups though they would still be competing for the remaining camps as well. this simply splits the competition into two groups – large groups rushing for large sites (using rabbits perhaps) and small groups rushing for small sites (using rabbits perhaps).

maybe i’m not understanding though.

Pinning down the numbers would require some real analysis of the data. But I think this solution is reasonable, easy to implement and administer. Incorporated into the permit it becomes self enforcing since, properly formulated, it will leave no room for misinterpretation.

On the Deschutes the BLM has marked camps with an unobtrusive brown plastic stake. I’ve never paid much attention to them but I can see them being placed along the Rogue to advise campers where they are and the specific requirements of a particular camp. This would help eliminate any confusion for boaters not entirely familiar with the river who might otherwise end up in the wrong camp.

KW

Of the 51 camps inventoried by the BLM, 21 are referred to as large and 7 are referred to as extra large. How about a plan that designates some of these for groups of 10 or more and others for groups of 15 or more? Or a plan that designates some of these for groups of 9 or more and others for groups of 14 or more?

Again, these numbers are just ideas and I’m open for discussion about what would work for all users. My goal is not to hoard campsites for commercial users. I simply would like to find a way to keep from “rabbit boating”.

If the twelve “large sites” that you identified in your other plan were limited to groups of 15 or more, the issue would be exactly the same. For those that came in to the discussion late, the issue is, where can a group of 10 to 14 camp? Since most of the groups in this range are private, it is a commercial vs private issue.