- The total private allocation is 72 for some days. And commercial allocation is 70 (not including guides) on other days.
- There is more private use than commercial use on the Rogue River.
- This shouldn’t be a private vs commercial issue.

Private groups are able to create starts on any given day if there is room in the common pool. Commercial groups are not allowed to do this. If the commercial outfitters wanted to take this to your level, they would petition to be able to create starts on any day. Or only allow private groups start trips only on days they have a lottery permit for (like all other permitted rivers).

The current permit system is in place to maximize the use by both private boaters and commercial outfitters. Reduction of use (by both commercial and private) is a very good solution to the problem. I doubt the BLM would support a plan that reduces use since they depend on the income generated by people going down the river.

I’d personally support a plan that reduces use by both commercial private users. Maybe cap commercial at 60 per day and only allow privates to go on dates they win in the lottery? I brought this idea up to both the NWRA board and the OWA general membership and both groups didn’t like the idea.

And, yes the group size can be changed if they open the campsite congestion issue to a public process. It is just as legitimate as your proposal to reserve campsites. If they open a public process on campsite congestion you can bet that reducing group size will be on the table.

Nobody has bridged the idea of reducing allowed group size. I can see how that could a solution to the problem.

I’m trying to find a solution within the current permitting system. Any changes to the system would be very difficult to make.

I would vote for option E, do nothing.

Why should campsites with outhouses be available to only large groups? If a small group has to spend $2.00 to clean out their groover the large groups shouldn’t be excluded.

It doesn’t bother me that the commercial trips or large groups are inconvenienced. A rabbit boat doesn’t have any real rite to tell any group that pulls into a site that they can’t camp there. When it comes to tent sites or kitchen sites, its first come first served. I think the rabbit boater needs to share the site or move on. If the rabbit sets up an entire camp I don’t suppose anyone has the rite to ask that camp be broken to move. I’ve been in small groups set up on the periphery of large occupied sites and had no issues. IF there are a lot of folks on the river solitude isn’t really an option, (the state of mind that is).

A bigger issue, in my book, would be getting the scat machines available on a year round basis so that winter river runners can clean out their toilets.

This is a problem on the Deschutes as well as the Rogue. The requirement or obligation to carry out your waste out doesn’t go away in the winter but the scat machines do. This sort of limits boaters to camping where there are toilets unless they want to visit a sewage treatment plant and clean out their toilets at home. This is not a pleasant experience.

Mike Babcock