We haven’t used this blog for a while, but I recently wrote the following letter and want to share it with as many Rogue River users as possible to help possible alleviate some of the campsite issues we’ve discussed in the past.

April 21, 2010

Dear Rogue River User,

I am writing this letter to both commercial outfitters and recreational river users (“private boaters”) to address some of the issues with campsite competition on the Rogue River and to offer some possible solutions. In the past there have been tensions on the Rogue River between commercial groups and private groups based on campsite competition. Two years ago I helped propose a campsite reservation system on the Rogue and learned a lot about some of the issues and possible solutions.

The problem seems to stem from small groups (let’s say 10 or fewer people) that use the large campsites, which can hold 20 or more people. Many groups use these sites simply because they have established outhouses, and they don’t want to set up their required river toilet. When this happens, large groups often have no place left to camp. This is a serious problem for large groups (both commercial and private), so in response, they sometimes send a rabbit boat (aka speed boat) ahead of their group to reserve large campsites. This, in turn, infuriates groups who don’t get their preferred campsites, and they blame the large groups. It’s a vicious cycle.

There are plenty of camp sites on the Rogue, if small groups take small campsites and large groups take large ones. The problems arise when small groups take large campsites. Unfortunately, the established outhouses are, for the most part, located at the large camps. This contributes to small groups not wanting to utilize the small sites.

This becomes a problem between private and commercial users, since large groups tend to be commercial groups and small groups tend to be private boaters. At most, 5 commercial outfitters can launch per day in several configurations, since outfitters have large (20 guests plus 5 guides) and small (10 guests and 3 guides) starts. On any given summer day, there can be 3 large, or 2 large and 2 small, or 2 large and 3 small, or 1 large and 4 small starts for outfitters. So, at most, there can be 5 commercial groups of varying size launching per day and at most, 3 of them are large groups. Typically at least one of the commercial groups is staying at the lodges, so only 2 of the larger camps are needed by large commercial trips.

Private groups tend to be much smaller based on the way the BLM manages private permits. It is more difficult to get a private permit for a larger group, so most private boaters apply for small permits. Since there is no punishment for turning in a private permit up to 10 days before the trip date, many permit holders hold their permits until then. These last minute cancellations lead to private groups that are put together at the last minute, which also tend to be smaller. The most common size for a private group is 2 people. Over half of the private groups are 5 people or less. 87% of the private groups have 10 or fewer people.

So commercial companies can launch up to 5 trips per day and they tend to be larger while private users, on average, launch 15 trips per day and tend to be smaller. It’s tough to find 20 camps each night, and luckily some outfitters run lodge trips, which eliminates the need for camps for some commercial groups.

To help us all have access to adequate campsites and a great experience on the Rogue, we all need to camp in campsites that fit our group size. This includes small commercial groups. The BLM has set this policy, but some groups don’t follow it and throw a wrench in the whole system.

There are so many wonderful small camps on the Rogue River that don’t get used simply because they don’t have a permanent outhouse. I am asking that if you are a small group, please don’t take a large camp simply because you’d rather not set up or clean your river toilet (this especially includes commercial guides & outfitters with small groups). Setting up your river toilet in a small camp will help alleviate camping issues for larger groups. This will help alleviate some of the on-river tensions AND reduce the need for commercial companies to send rabbit boats.

I attempted to propose a campsite reservations system two years ago and met much resistance along the way. It was a huge learning experience for me. Here are some alternative solutions to the “campsite competition” program that I suggest:

Remove established outhouses from large campsites and replace them in small campsites.

Require private permit holders to turn in their unused permits 30 days before the start date. This was proposed by the Oregon Whitewater Association as a solution to the campsite competition problem.

Educate small groups about the limited number of large sites (i.e. this letter)

Finally, please note that if you are a small group camped at a large campsite, another group can camp at that spot. This goes for both private and commercial trips. Please be ready to make space (and new friends) if you’ve chosen a large site for a small group.

If you have any comments, ideas, or suggestions, please contact me directly at (541) 386-2271 or by email at zach@echotrips.com.

Sincerely,

Zachary Collier
General Manager
ECHO River Trips

As the Board of Directors, we recognize there are vast and different opinions on this issue and have decided to keep the official club stance as broad as possible in an effort to advocate for all boaters.

• Increase the confirmation time for winning lottery applications from 10 days to 30 days. With all of the commitments most of us have during the busy summer season, ten days is simply not enough time to put together a large group. Between scheduling time off work, juggling other commitments and finding multiple day childcare (if you need to), most of us have our summers planned out more than 10 days ahead of us at a time. A 30 day notice seems a little more reasonable for planning purposes.
• Define the large group size that is able to reserve campsites as 10 people. If we as private boaters are going to be able to participate in this campsite reservation system, and the defining rule as to whether you can reserve a campsite or not is group size, then the definition of a large group should be something that is reasonable attainable by most boaters. We feel a group size of ten people is large enough that a large campsite is necessary while at the same time most people can round up ten people to take a river trip given enough notice.
• Place signs at each campsite marking the river mile and the recommended group size. Signing the campsites helps in a number of ways: it lets people know the marked location is in fact a campsite, it lets people know where exactly they are at on the river, and it would let people know the recommended group size so small groups can leave the campsites for large groups. Also, if there is to be a reservation system then at a minimum the sites that can be reserved need to be signed to let everyone know the site has a possibility of being reserved.

It seems that the best thing we can do is increase communication between all parties that float the Rogue. River In order to do this, I’d be happy to come speak any recreational boating group about:

• What commercial companies can do to improve
• Why we need to send rabbit boats and how we can reduce the need for them
• Answer any questions from an outfitter’s perspective

From a meeting I’d be happy to send any feedback with the other commercial outfitters and guides. Please email me or simply add a comment to this blog and give us your input.

Thanks,

Zachary Collier
ECHO River Trips
(541) 386-2271
zach@echotrips.com

• The outhouses at Lower Horseshoe and Tyee will likely close in the 2009 season
• The outhouses at Doe and Missouri Bar will likely close in the 2010 season

The outhouse at Missouri Bar will be the most missed. The BLM put sensors in the door mats and recorded that the Missouri bar outhouse was used an average of 56 times per day in the summer months.

In a comment on the last post, Mike Babcock raises some issues about the scat machine not being open year-round. I’m not sure why they close it in the winter but my guess is to avoid vandalism. His comments reminded me of some interesting statistics about the Scat machine.

• The Forest Service collected $486 from the Scat Machine in 2008
• It costs $1 to use the Scat Machine (so it was used 486 times)
• There were 1201 private trips in 2008
• There were 483 commercial trips in 2008
• That’s a total of 1684 trips!

So at least 1684 “groovers” went down the Rogue last year and only 486 were cleaned in the Scat Machine. It’s pretty obvious that we (both commercial and private) are dependent on the outhouses. Maybe the loss of 4 “key” outhouses will force more people to use their groovers.

I’ve heard that part of the problem is that many private boaters don’t want to buy expensive “groovers” like the Jon-ny Partner (about $500). Maybe a simple solution to getting small groups to camp at adequately sized camps is for the BLM to rent them. Any thoughts?

I’m sure we’ll have more discussion after the various private boating groups meet and talk about the various ideas. In the meantime, I thought I’d post this video.

watch?v=xeoF4-27y3E

“I’d like to see a system that assigns a minimum group size to the medium and larger camps with a requirement that there must be at least the minimum number of people at the camp in order to claim it. This would make sending a rabbit boat useless and would stop the small groups from claiming large camps (for example I heard a story about a small, 1 or 2 boat, party grabbing Battle Bar). There could be a time set, say 4PM for example, where anyone still on the river could grab any camp.”

Any thoughts?

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